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BFME2 Admin-2  
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#1
   2/13/2013 5:04 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Let's use this topic to discuss the rules.
 
Brainhackr suggested the following:
"On the last day of a tournament the top 10 players can only play vs each other."
 By implementing such a rule the top 3 positions  are determined more on skill than on who knows the "dirtiest" tricks to get points. According to him that wouldn't be acceptable seeing as the top 5/10 players are on pretty much all day.
I left out the tournament idea, because the clanwars league is a point based system and attempts to decide the cups via tournament have failed  due to various reasons (hard to find a suitable date for all players, players not showing up, players have to leave early...etc.).
 
PoW|Winter suggested to change the rule #9 as follows:
"If you switch clans after the first week of the month, you and your former clan cannot play against your former clan for the rest of the tournament."
According to him the clans are pretty set and hopping is only done for opportunistic reasons.
I'm not that into the current cw situation. Is there a lot of clan hopping going on? What are your thoughts about this proposed rule change?
 
Regards,
BfME2 Admin-2 
 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
Unr3al|Valheru   rank: #34
member #17,427
boss of   Unr3al
fresh off of power win number 10 this month
#2
   2/13/2013 10:40 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
It doesnt fix anything. If you want to get to the bottom of last-day-game-spam you need to change the points formulae
 
User Post Count: 42 Registered: Sunday, April 1, 2007 IP: NA
Alex (Ugluk)   rank: #34
member #29,523
-- not in a clan --  
fresh off of power win number 10 this month
#3
   2/14/2013 3:03 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Replying to post #2   2/13/2013 10:40 PM


quoting: Unr3al|Valheru

It doesnt fix anything. If you want to get to the bottom of last-day-game-spam you need to change the points formulae

indeed 
 
User Post Count: 19 Registered: Monday, April 2, 2012 IP: NA
Alex (Ugluk)   rank: #34
member #29,523
-- not in a clan --  
fresh off of power win number 10 this month
#4
   2/14/2013 3:34 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
 the rules always has been ok (imo this change in rule 9 by adminis is better)
 
the only problem always will be the cheaters, specially who would KILL for this:
http://www.clanwars.cc/images/card_gold.gif
In this case should be a punishment for each broken rule, whether for something big or something bit, proportionally at the infraction made by the player.
I MEAN, in the rulement not necessarily must to say how exactly will be the punishment. Rather just should say if the punishment is a BAN; MATCH VOIDED; POINTS PUNISHMNT; ETC. IF there are troubles in the forum, adminis can decide how long you will be banned, how many points you will loss or what games are going to be voided.
 
User Post Count: 19 Registered: Monday, April 2, 2012 IP: NA
Brainhackr   rank: #34
member #29,976
-- not in a clan --  
fresh off of power win number 20 this month
#5
   2/14/2013 6:52 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Last day spam is ok but not last day spam vs rank 40. Last day all top players are always on so they will have no problems finding games vs eachother once they have no other choice.
 
User Post Count: 27 Registered: Monday, August 13, 2012 IP: NA
Alex (Ugluk)   rank: #34
member #29,523
-- not in a clan --  
fresh off of power win number 10 this month
#6
   2/14/2013 7:50 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
in that case this number 
Clan vs clan daily match limit:16
should be lower 6 or 8
 
and about top 10 players vs acc just created (rank 999°
elo system would need a change
 
User Post Count: 19 Registered: Monday, April 2, 2012 IP: NA
takeiteasy   rank: #34
member #29,720
-- not in a clan --  
Fresh off of a pasting of #1 ranked clan: 1.6
 
#7
   2/14/2013 10:11 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
it s funny that admins ask to change rules, meaning that they agree that RECON guys point pushed each other, but they dont punish them?
 
 
ok i tell you why  ur suggestion wont work. Lets say last day of cw in the morning, ranks are like this :
 
1 Otto
2 Halet
3 ninkazy
4 Brainhacker
5 Radegast
 
Halet plays 1 game or few games vs otto and accidently, he wins so he goes at rank 1 and otto at rank 2. 
 It's late on the evening and exept ninkazy, Brainhacker and the other ppl are not online,Halet decide to just log off since he is rank 1 and since the only way for otto to get pts is to play vs halet, or  ninkazy but ninkazy dodges otto.
 
Otto cannot do anything. 
 
 
 
User Post Count: 87 Registered: Monday, June 4, 2012 IP: NA
PoW|Winter  
member #30,195
 
#8
   2/14/2013 11:02 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Also, ranks ten and eleven can switch because of a game rank eleven wins against twelve or lower during the time say rank eight  and rank ten are playing, etc. It's simply an impossible to implement system. It's like Val and Alex say, if you want to do anything against the last day spam you need to change the points system, but I'm too much of a noob in that respect.
 
 I also think my suggestion still can't hurt to avoid certain situations, at any rate there's few negative things to it I can think off.
 
User Post Count:  Registered:  IP: NA
takeiteasy   rank: #34
member #29,720
-- not in a clan --  
Fresh off of a pasting of #1 ranked clan: 1.6
 
#9
   2/14/2013 11:12 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
just leave it like this, u already fuked the game/community
 
User Post Count: 87 Registered: Monday, June 4, 2012 IP: NA
Alex (Ugluk)   rank: #34
member #29,523
-- not in a clan --  
fresh off of power win number 10 this month
#10
   2/14/2013 11:40 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Replying to post #7   2/14/2013 10:11 AM


quoting: takeiteasy

it s funny that admins ask to change rules, meaning that they agree that RECON guys point pushed each other, but they dont punish them?
 
 
ok i tell you why  ur suggestion wont work. Lets say last day of cw in the morning, ranks are like this :
 
1 Otto
2 Halet
3 ninkazy
4 Brainhacker
5 Radegast
 
Halet plays 1 game or few games vs otto and accidently, he wins so he goes at rank 1 and otto at rank 2. 
 It's late on the evening and exept ninkazy, Brainhacker and the other ppl are not online,Halet decide to just log off since he is rank 1 and since the only way for otto to get pts is to play vs halet, or  ninkazy but ninkazy dodges otto.
 
Otto cannot do anything. 
 
 


August 2012... August 2012... August 2012... August 2012... August 2012... August 2012...  don't be hypocrisy please. 
I hope you still remember that game vs RECON, in august yes, i was even in your clan.
we lost 1 game and crazily we "won" Já! i'ts magic isn't it? lol
 
according everything you was telling, what should be your punishment?
because you can't telling me you didn't dodge otto  that  8/31/2012 my friend :D
 
 
 
pd: i did dodge otto in that day too, but i played with him enought games ... and he got me mad jijiji
he had enought golds too hahaha :p
 
User Post Count: 19 Registered: Monday, April 2, 2012 IP: NA
Brainhackr   rank: #34
member #29,976
-- not in a clan --  
fresh off of power win number 20 this month
#11
   2/14/2013 3:01 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Hmm I guess new rules like this would come with other problems. Also I guess this isn't the right environment for a serieus discussion about this coz it'l end up in flaming and raging anyways. I do think a lot of players would like to see the point system changed but there have been enough discussions about it and is prolly not possible.
 
User Post Count: 27 Registered: Monday, August 13, 2012 IP: NA
BFME2 Admin-2  
League Admin
 
#12
   2/14/2013 3:54 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
I deleted posts of takeiteasy and Alex (Ugluk). Stay on topic.
 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
BFME2 Admin-2  
League Admin
 
#13
   2/14/2013 3:55 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Replying to post #5   2/14/2013 6:52 AM


quoting: Brainhackr

Last day spam is ok but not last day spam vs rank 40. Last day all top players are always on so they will have no problems finding games vs eachother once they have no other choice.

Why isn't a last day spam vs rank 40 ok? It's not like you get a lot points by playing vs rank 40...
 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
BFME2 Admin-2  
League Admin
 
#14
   2/14/2013 3:57 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Replying to post #6   2/14/2013 7:50 AM


quoting: Alex (Ugluk)

in that case this number 
Clan vs clan daily match limit:16
should be lower 6 or 8
 
and about top 10 players vs acc just created (rank 999°
elo system would need a change


Apparently this numer "16" doensn't mean anything. The pointy automatically decrease dramatically after 10 games. That's part of the current point system we're using.
 
What's the problem when top 10 players are playing vs a just created nick? I don't get it. 
 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
BFME2 Admin-2  
League Admin
 
#15
   2/14/2013 4:02 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Replying to post #7   2/14/2013 10:11 AM


quoting: takeiteasy

it s funny that admins ask to change rules, meaning that they agree that RECON guys point pushed each other, but they dont punish them?
 

We didn't ask to change the rules. We're discussin possible changes because the communit asked for it.
About the recon thing please read the other thread. I explained the situation with rule #9 there. 
 
Replying to post #7   2/14/2013 10:11 AM


quoting: takeiteasy

ok i tell you why  ur suggestion wont work. Lets say last day of cw in the morning, ranks are like this :
 
1 Otto
2 Halet
3 ninkazy
4 Brainhacker
5 Radegast
 
Halet plays 1 game or few games vs otto and accidently, he wins so he goes at rank 1 and otto at rank 2. 
 It's late on the evening and exept ninkazy, Brainhacker and the other ppl are not online,Halet decide to just log off since he is rank 1 and since the only way for otto to get pts is to play vs halet, or  ninkazy but ninkazy dodges otto.
 
Otto cannot do anything. 
 
 
 Like I already posted in the other thread. Dodging could get worse with such a new rule.
 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
BFME2 Admin-2  
League Admin
 
#16
   2/14/2013 4:04 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Replying to post #8   2/14/2013 11:02 AM


quoting: PoW|Winter

Also, ranks ten and eleven can switch because of a game rank eleven wins against twelve or lower during the time say rank eight  and rank ten are playing, etc. It's simply an impossible to implement system. It's like Val and Alex say, if you want to do anything against the last day spam you need to change the points system, but I'm too much of a noob in that respect.
 
 I also think my suggestion still can't hurt to avoid certain situations, at any rate there's few negative things to it I can think off.


Yeah. If you're in the top 10 you don't know for sure whether you can play vs a specific player or not. 
 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
BFME2 Admin-2  
League Admin
 
#17
   2/14/2013 4:07 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Replying to post #11   2/14/2013 3:01 PM


quoting: Brainhackr

Hmm I guess new rules like this would come with other problems. Also I guess this isn't the right environment for a serieus discussion about this coz it'l end up in flaming and raging anyways. I do think a lot of players would like to see the point system changed but there have been enough discussions about it and is prolly not possible.
If you don't want to post in here anymore, you're more than welcome to send me a PM with your thoughts. 
 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
takeiteasy   rank: #34
member #29,720
-- not in a clan --  
Fresh off of a pasting of #1 ranked clan: 1.6
 
#18
   2/14/2013 4:18 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
its very hard to find a fair system, imo the best way is to make a tournament between top 8 playerz and the winners get cups but well its still not that fair for ppl who dont like 1v1ing.
 
Imo admins should just make point penality when ppl make wierd things idk 
 
User Post Count: 87 Registered: Monday, June 4, 2012 IP: NA
Unr3al|Valheru   rank: #34
member #17,427
boss of   Unr3al
fresh off of power win number 10 this month
#19
   2/15/2013 2:10 AM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
The points system has been changed in the past and theres no reason that I know of that prevents it from being changed again. The point gain for warriors defeating the top 10 needs be less and the point loss for warriors losing needs to be less. I would also suggest a slight decrease in the general points gain per win regardless of Rank.
 
User Post Count: 42 Registered: Sunday, April 1, 2007 IP: NA
Brainhackr   rank: #34
member #29,976
-- not in a clan --  
fresh off of power win number 20 this month
#20
   2/15/2013 4:35 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
There is one thing that amazed me a lot last month. Couple hours before reset Otto played vs Halet and won both games. He had a lower rank at that time than Halet but he just got 12 points for each win? When Halet beat me in the same rank positions he got 68 points for each win. I guess theres an explanation for this but I think it's a weird system!
 
 
User Post Count: 27 Registered: Monday, August 13, 2012 IP: NA
ArCh4Ng3L   rank: #2
member #28,992
boss of   1.6
Fresh off of a pasting of #1 ranked clan: [S]
                
            
     
#21
   2/15/2013 5:11 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
That was cuz 1.6 had already completed 10 games vs RECON that day of the month so those 2 games were played after the max limit of games were played.I personally know that Jase wanted to change it up to 14 or 16 games maximum from 10 but iirc he told me that there wont be any significant change.
 
User Post Count: 43 Registered: Monday, June 13, 2011 IP: NA
BFME2 Admin-2  
League Admin
 
#22
   2/15/2013 6:49 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
We're currently using the ELO point system. The points are calculated as such = K x E x W x O
 
K - K value currently set to 100
E - .01 to 1 (base on if the underdog or favorite won and ow close in rank they were)
W - starts at .5 on day one of a new tournament and grows to 1 on the last day of the tournament
O - offsets starts at 1 when same clans play against each other fir the first time on a day, second match it is .9, third match it is .8, etc... After 10 matches against similar clans it is .1 and stays at .1
 
So in conclusion the O value sets teh limit two clans can play eachother on a day to 10.

 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
BFME2 Admin-2  
League Admin
 
#23
   2/15/2013 6:54 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
Replying to post #19   2/15/2013 2:10 AM


quoting: Unr3al|Valheru

The point gain for warriors defeating the top 10 needs be less and the point loss for warriors losing needs to be less.

It's all regulated via the power wins. Currently the clan power win range is 2 and the warrior power win range is 5. You only gain a lot of points when you defeat clans/players within that range. On the other hand only clans/players within that range do actually lose points.
 
I'm totally fine with the way it is now. Do you want to change the power win range to 1 for clans and to 3 for players?
 
User Post Count: 404 Registered: Sunday, May 25, 2008 IP: NA
Unr3al|Valheru   rank: #34
member #17,427
boss of   Unr3al
fresh off of power win number 10 this month
#24
   2/19/2013 10:44 PM
posting in thread: (Discussion about the rules)
               
If you have the time/effort send me an email with detailed information about the specifics of the points system. Definitions, formulae, rules, the whole lot. I would be glad to make a few suggestions but I need to know pretty much everything about how the formulae and such operates, and all exlusions to the rules. Once I have that I will post back in here and the community can make a decision.
 
 Cardie.03@gmail.com
 
User Post Count: 42 Registered: Sunday, April 1, 2007 IP: NA

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